'So sue me': Client challenges developer to sue them for their $2000 payment, they accept

Author image for Brad Dickson
Brad Dickson • Managing Editor
Nov 21, 2023 7:00 AM EST

"So sue me" is one of those phrases that works great amongst friends or family when there's a minor playful disagreement where no one is actually likely to sue, but it is also often misunderstood and used as a challenge or an ultimatum in instances where people actually might want to do so. In these instances, it's not nearly as great as a one-liner or quip as you might think, as you're pretty much just reminding the person they have the option of suing you if they want to. And, if you're using this phrase towards someone whom you're refusing to pay, they probably will want to once reminded.

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  • This is all the important lesson that this company, and particularly this manager, learned after challenging a contract developer to pursue legal action when they refused to pay them after canceling a project they had already completed in the twilight hours of the arrangement. See the developer's story below.  

  • 01
    "So sue me."
    via Annie Spratt
  • 02
    Posted by u/Hot_Cryptographer552 19 hours ago "So Sue Me..." Really? L OC This happened several years ago. I was working 40 hours/week programming at my main job, but I did occasional small projects in the evenings and on weekends for other clients. At one point I was referred to a large company that runs major stadiums and event venues around the country (one of their stadiums is relatively close to where I live). I'll just call them MARK-1 for this story.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 03
    THE SAGA BEGINS This manager at MARK-1 said they wanted a simple administration database and user interface for employee timekeeping. Apparently the old system they had was not working for them. I got details of what they wanted and drafted a set of specifications. Told them I could write the system to the specs for $2,000 flat rate. They agreed.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 04
    I immediately went to work and churned out a database and UI for the system with full documentation in about 2 weeks. So I scheduled an in-person meeting to show them. Now when I showed up at the meeting, someone representing the security department was there. And he asked about getting some additional features. Sure, I told him, I can do that.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 05
    So I went back, wrote up a change request and incorporated the additional features into the platform. I scheduled another meeting with MARK-1 for a couple of days later. When I got to that meeting I noticed the audience had grown: there were two extra people from the finance department. "Can you add Feature X, Feature Y and Feature Z?" they asked. "Sure, no problem."
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 06
    So I left, wrote up a CR and added the features. A few days later I met with them again. Imagine my surprise when the audience size had grown, and the new attendees asked for more features. This went on for about 5 more rounds, and I was getting frustrated that I had spec'd out a 2-week project that was now taking months. And I wouldn't be paid until I delivered (and they accepted) the final product. But I chugged along implementing all their change requests.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 07
    But one day the MARK-1 manager called me. Apparently she had been speaking with other departments that weren't represented in her status meetings of ever- increasing mass. She gave me a list of dozens of new features they wanted, some of which would require a complete redesign of the core database and an overhaul of the UI. I had had enough. I told her "This is a complete overhaul of the original spec. I'll have to redesign and rebuild this from the ground up."
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 08
    "Well that's not my problem," she responded. "Well actually it is. I'm not going to design and build an entirely new system until you pay me for the current one, built to the specs we agreed on." After a short pause, she dropped a bomb on me: "Well we're not going to renegotiate. You can consider this project canceled."
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 09
    "That's not how this works. You still have to pay me for the work I've done." "No I don't. You haven't delivered anything. Sue me." And she hung up. Cue the Malicious Compliance.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 10
    MEET ME AT THE COURTHOUSE I took MARK-1 manager's advice and went to the courthouse the next day to file in small claims court to recover $2,000 from MARK-1. On my court date a couple of months later, I went down to the courthouse and was greeted by an arbitrator. In my state, they have court- appointed arbitrators meet the litigants when they arrive, to see if the parties can sort out the case with an agreement to maximize the judge's time.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 11
    The arbitrator asked me "Is there anything you would agree to, to resolve this immediately?" I thought about it and said "If they'll pay me 90%, $1,800, right now I'll drop the suit." He then went into a side room where the MARK-1 manager and the corporate lawyer were hanging out. I heard her screaming that they would either "Pay it all or pay zero!"
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 12
    The arbitrator came to me with the news, and I told him "I heard, and I'm happy to take it all." He laughed and said no, they want to go to trial. Fast forward a couple of hours (fast forward is a funny phrase, considering how slow the court moved, but hey), and we're standing in front of the judge. I'm at my table alone, and the MARK-1 manager and lawyer are standing at the opposite table.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 13
    The judge asked MARK-1 manager to tell her side first. She went into a very long speech about the project and corporate America and apple pie and thermonuclear weapons and honestly I have no idea because I stopped listening about 28 minutes ago. She talked nonstop for at least 30 mins.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 14
    Then the judge asked me for my story. Now I wasn't maliciously ignoring MARK-1 manager's long-winded tale of political intrigue and patriotism. I was actually formulating a strategy. I thought to myself the judge probably had people who liked to speechify in front of him all day every day. I also thought he might appreciate a short and sweet story that got straight to the point and didn't waste his time.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 15
    So I said "Your honor, they agreed to pay me $2,000 to design and build a software system for them. I completed the work based on the agreed specs and then they decided to cancel the project after I was done." That was it. Then the judge asked me "How do I know you did the work?"
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 16
    I had printed out the specs, change requests, documentation, and source code the night before. I lifted a ream of paper (500 pages) from my table and offered it to the bailiff. "Here's the code I wrote for them your honor." The bailiff came to take it from me and the judge waved him off: "No need, I can see it from here."
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 17
    The judge then asked MARK-1 manager "Is this true?" She looked like she was in a daze. "Uhhhhhh yes..." "Then I find for the plaintiff in the amount of $2,000." F"CK YOU, PAY ME!
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 18
    About a month later, MARK-1 still hadn't paid. So I called the county sheriff and explained. Sent him the court judgement documents, and he said "No problem, they'll pay." The sheriff actually called me later that day. He was on a cell phone and I could hear him talking to the MARK-1 manager. He told her cut a check for $2,000 right now or he was going to "rip your
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 19
    computers out of the wall and auction them off until the judgement is satisfied." I don't know if he had that authority, but the sheriff seemed to have a grudge against MARK-1, and he was reveling in the opportunity to dog them out. Apparently MARK-1 believed he had the authority because-long story short-the sheriff had a $2,000 check in his hand about 15 minutes later and it was in my mailbox about a week later.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 20
    ChiTown Bob 18 hr. ago In my judgment, this is an grade A+ MC :) And the Sheriff had a MC too, so this is a MC in an MC :) So, this is a MC squared. Since E=MC squared, this is a Einstein level MC :) Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 21
    Hot_Cryptographer552 OP. 18 hr. ago To this day I don't know what the sheriff had against them, but he was thoroughly enjoying it Maybe they sold him event or something? tickets to an Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 22
    WinginVegas 20 hr. ago . To answer your question, yes the Sheriff has a number of methods to collect a judgement. One of them is to seize assets and then sell them at a Sheriff's auction. And they add the fees and costs of collecting to the amount needed. Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 23
    Hot 20 hr. ago Cryptographer552 OP. Beautiful. Explains why they paid him so quickly I knew he had the authority to collect, didn't realize he could just take stuff and auction it though Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 24
    zephen_just_zephen 20 hr. ago Small claims is a powerful weapon in the hands of the proletariat. It's really fun when the other side engages high-powered lawyers to try to intimidate you. Been there, done that, just laughed. I'll get my cut, and you're wasting your own resources, to boot! Vote Reply Share ●●●
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 25
    Bemteb 20 hr. ago That's why you put a number of $ on each change request and only start working on it once the money got approved. Furthermore, only start working on the changes once the first version is done and paid, call it version 2. That's the theory, of course things aren't always that easy. And if they are nice they might get one or two changes on the house. Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 26
    Hot_Cryptographer552 OP. 20 hr. ago Early on the CRs were relatively quick and simple, but they kept increasing in size and scope. Our status meetings started with 5 people (including me); the last one had 15 attendees from a bunch of departments. And the final round of CRs was so extensive there was no way I was doing them for free ↑ Vote ↓ Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 27
    joppedi_72 18 hr. ago Always write into your contracts that any changes or addons outside the agreed specs comes with a pricetag, especially when agreeing to flatrate. Vote Reply Share Vote ●●● Hot_Cryptographer552 OP. 18 hr. ago Where were you 18 years ago with the advice? Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 28
    Meowcat0206 · 19 hr. ago I love this, but I would have loved it more if you recouped the full amount of your months of work that you seem to have given away for free when they kept changing the specs. Any contractor I've known would negotiate additional fees prior to undertaking further works Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 29
    Hot_Cryptographer552 OP 18 hr. ago It was just a few hours on nights and weekends here and there in between meetings. Not a lot of time was spent on the project doing actual development work, even with all their changes. I think I spent more time writing up their CRs and other documentation than coding after the initial spec was done. I just saw it was about to get out of hand with the last blast of CRs. Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 30
    nothingandnemo 17 hr. ago ● It's a shame you're not entitled to compensation for their late payment. The default judgment should be the amount + 10% Vote Reply Share Hot_Cryptographer552 OP. ●● 7 hr. ago I went to the sheriff right at the end of the 30-day period he granted them to send payment, so the payment
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 31
    wasn't actually "late" in this case. If I had waited 6 months I probably could have gotten interest too, but like the American philosopher J.G. Wentworth said, "It's my money, and I want it now!!" Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 32
    ibelieveindogs 18 hr. ago. edited 18 hr. ago Pretty sure the sheriff had that authority. I vaguely recall a story years ago about someone who sued a bank, and when the bank laughed off the judgment instead of paying it, sheriff went down, locked up the branch, and was going to start doing that until the manager realized "oopsie", and cut the check.
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 33
    ethertype 14 hr. ago How come you didn't charge for implementing the Change Requests? The 2k flat rate was for the initial spec, right? Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 34
    sharingthegoodword 18 hr. ago ● I have a parent who is an attorney. Very golfy golf with the judges and one thing I was told is in small claims showing up with an attorney annoys the judge. Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 35
    GreyGroundUser 15 hr. ago In the construction world, this is called scope creep. Vote Reply Share Cyberhwk 12 hr. ago Basically all of contracting really. Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552
  • 36
    greengo07 11 hr. ago EVERY additional change should require more pay. First set of changes should be met with: " okay, pay me for the work I already did and I'll get right on the additions for X bucks." Vote Reply Share Hot_Cryptographer552 OP. 10 hr. ago Can you go back 18 years and leave that on a sticky note for me? Vote Reply Share
    via u/Hot_Cryptographer552

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